Here's their statement saying they are too shaken up after the events this week to sit for exams. They are rightfully getting crushed online for the ask.
Would you hire them?
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Lawyers ask for things. Often times, the things that lawyers ask for are very unpopular or even unjustified. But it's what we do.
ReplyDeleteIf I were in administration at the law school, I would summarily refuse.
If I were a hiring manager reviewing their applications, I would not paint the law students with a broad brush. If I was hiring at a white shoe firm, I would drill down on individual applicants to test their mettle a little bit - but I'd be doing that to anyone that got past initial screening. 2,000+ billable hours on high stakes litigation isn't for everyone, no matter where they went to law school.
No.
ReplyDeleteWhat a strange question. Not “do you agree with the students?” Not “are you sympathetic to the students’ plight but would you find an alternative to outright cancelling exams?” Not “are exams and GPAs really meaningful”. But “would you hire them?” I really do not understand the question or the reason for even asking it. The events on campuses across the country are monumental and I believe will have significant repercussions for not only students but our country. They raise important questions of free speech, student activism, the politicizing and hijacking of valid student voices, support for vs hatred against, civil disobedience as an effective tool to bring light to an issue or to effect change. Of all the important questions these events raise, I believe “Will you hire them” is not one of those important questions.
ReplyDeleteIt’s an important question. My answer: I might hire them to do my will but anything that gets them outside the comfort of their air conditioned office with their 2 pump latté, no dice. Imagine them trying to handle a criminal defense jury trial. Awful.
DeleteI disagree that they are "rightfully" getting crushed for the ask, the ask for a pass/fail option seems reasonable in light of the events going on on their campus.
ReplyDeleteI think your fellow blogger Joe Patrice has it right:
"Seriously though, the school can’t get its schedule straight and students have had their preparation disrupted by unexpected intervening events. What is the harm in going to mandatory pass/fail? Employers will lose a smidgeon of distinguishing information about candidates, but the risk that they’d get inaccurate intel from a graded exam this week is just as bad if not worse. Better to rely on the pass/fail marker and, you know, last semester’s grades to get an actionable sense of the applicant.
This is an easy decision.
But there are going to be people quick to ask, “how can they be lawyers if they can’t draft an M&A agreement every time there’s an unprecedented paramilitary invasion on their block?” How indeed.
https://abovethelaw.com/2024/05/columbia-law-review-cancel-exams-pass-fail/
Well, the question lumps the whole student body together. No problem with the bystanders, the peaceful protestors, even the loudmouthed idiots for misguided causes. As to the lawbreakers, they have lost the benefit of the doubt that they are sensible or trustworthy, but why not use a Florida Bar style approach where they should be allowed to try to show rehabilitation to be considered?
ReplyDelete1:07 is spot on. DOM's question is a great question. The students that can perform on their exams notwithstanding the recent events, are clearly the ones you want to hire. The ones who are complaining are the ones who will likewise complain about workload.
ReplyDeleteJust don’t even respond. They either take the tests or not and can make excuses after the fact.
ReplyDeleteTo the critics of 11:12. You took them very literally. I assumed they were using a rhetorical device to try to discuss all the issues involved. And DOM asked for responses.
ReplyDeleteNo more Harlan Fisk Stone Scholars (Columbia seemingly gives out that title to everyone!).
ReplyDeleteThe police actions in clearing of encampment and removal of criminal actors in take over of administrative building is no reason to cancel exams!
ReplyDeleteGiven the vile, antisemitic hate emanating from these campuses, as an employer I would not be hiring from many of these Ivy League schools!
ReplyDeleteI wouldn’t hire Ivy League anyhow. For lots of reasons.
ReplyDeleteThe college experience is about more than just studying and grades. You’re supposed to learn about yourself, and that usually happens when you do hard things. Real world tests don’t get canceled when other challenges arise. Also, you hire the person not the school.
ReplyDeleteSteve Bronis:
ReplyDeleteLest we forget. Perhaps some of these comments are from lawyers too young to remember or they simply forget the past. When I was a 1L at Duke, I and about 15-20 percent of my fellow classmates requested to defer our final exams for the summer so that we could participate as monitors for anti-Vietnam war protests in Washington DC. It seemed right, especially since the sitting President was a Duke alum. We were granted the deferment.
Law firms did not punish our decision then, and while it was difficult to take the exams so long after semester classes were dismissed, most of the students that exercised the choice to express their First Amendment freedoms became successful productive contributors to our justice system.
If we are truly liberties last champions, we should have a little compassion and understanding.
Steve, you seriously think students today are at all comparable to when you were a 1L some fifty years ago?? You’re a great lawyer but open your eyes man. Read their letter: “irrevocably shaken” as in give us a permanent deferment and switch classes to pass/fail.
DeleteOk 5 pm I’ll get off your lawn.
ReplyDeleteUmm remind me not to hire any of them for a criminal case. In the late 1979s after the McDuffie riots prosecutors and PDS walked into the justice building under the eyes of armed national guards and Overtown a mile away on fire. So don’t talk to me about tough times. Grow a pair will ya ?
ReplyDeleteRumpole with another get off my lawn comment
ReplyDelete